tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post2748998122665341135..comments2024-03-18T17:36:55.778-04:00Comments on Mondesi's House: Neal Huntington Defends the Nuttingsmondesishousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16196483886553780303noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-1092132270939526702010-08-24T12:13:42.300-04:002010-08-24T12:13:42.300-04:00To further Dice's point about draft position, ...To further Dice's point about draft position, here is a chart from baseball america of how much over slot each team spent in the 2010 MLB draft (bucs rank 5th)<br /><br />('Slot Total' means what the team would've spent if it signed ALL of its picks in the first ten rounds at slot value)<br /><br />http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/draft/?p=2935HomeRunFromBehindTheMeatballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09153804542539188315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-25814629763394614882010-08-19T09:53:36.452-04:002010-08-19T09:53:36.452-04:00@inclementweather - that comparison is EXTREMELY f...@inclementweather - that comparison is EXTREMELY fair. It's all young talent acquisitions. And while the pirates are near the top in MLB Draft spending, they are likely near the bottom in my made up category of "devleopmental talent acquisition spending". They keep tooting their own horn, all the while, their draft spending isn't that impressive. Like the post said, they're just FINALLY spending WHAT THEY SHOULD. How much did the pirates spend on Miguel Sano?<br /><br />While, the Pirates payroll is unGodly low, who should they be paying? I would rather see if the young guys can play (J. Clement/S. Pearce/etc) and find out for sure that some of these guys shouldn't play everyday (A. LaRoche/L. Milledge/etc) than watch another x nady/n mclouth/j bay outfield ever again. That being said, 'Cutch NEEDS a raise next season.<br /><br />@dice - great point about draft position!<br /><br />@brian - 2011 - Man, would i LOVE to see Cutch/Tabata/Crawford in the outfield! There wouldn't be any bloop singles or extra bases against that D! Ain't gonna happen, but ...well, yeah, ain't gonna happen. Josh Fogg is still around? In the majors?<br />2012 - Adrian Gonzalez is a player too, but we'd have to outbid a LOT of teams for him.<br />I realize that Crawford & Gonzalez will be THE catches of free agency the next few years, but i'd at least TRY to get them. Hell, while i'm living this pipedream, might as well go after Cliff Lee in 2012 too? I really don't feel like you COULD overpay for these three guys. They're all proven performers.HomeRunFromBehindTheMeatballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09153804542539188315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-89801544545707067502010-08-18T16:11:23.648-04:002010-08-18T16:11:23.648-04:00"would you rather have an arrogant NH or an i..."would you rather have an arrogant NH or an imbecile DL?"<br /><br />I'll take C: What NH does without trying to take shots at what the fan base thinks of his boss. <br /><br />Again, good work on getting them signed, but if they didn't spend money on the draft, they would have been ripped most likely in the same fashion the Marlins were. They have no choice but to spend SOME money. <br /><br />If you want a blog where you want to pat NH and Nutting on the ass, then maybe this isn't the place for you. Or most of the region for that matter.<br /><br />By the way, the PLC blog that lined a 'response' predicted the Pirates would win 76 games this year. <br /><br />In other words, for a team that many thought would lose 100 games this year, and lost 90 or more games since 2004 (when they lost 89) would actually lose 86 this year. <br /><br />I think there is nothing more that needs to be said here.BURGH08https://www.blogger.com/profile/04977580975300029584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-7950145554108933172010-08-18T15:49:55.173-04:002010-08-18T15:49:55.173-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.BURGH08https://www.blogger.com/profile/04977580975300029584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-66251242806377640242010-08-18T15:45:01.884-04:002010-08-18T15:45:01.884-04:00"It's not always a question of being able..."It's not always a question of being able to afford players. They also have to want to come and play for you."<br /><br />They will consider you a hell of a lot more if you have the money to pay them. They also will consider you if you have players worth playing with. <br /><br />Maybe someday these young guys will be some of them. Highly unlikely that there will be enough of them though.BURGH08https://www.blogger.com/profile/04977580975300029584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-25237559964898552082010-08-18T14:48:11.951-04:002010-08-18T14:48:11.951-04:00@ Steve: This team won't be good in 2 years wi...@ Steve: This team won't be good in 2 years without outside help, I think even die-hard Bucs fans would admit that. 3 years is possible, and by then I'd be all for adding some pieces through free agency/trades and hopefully they will expand payroll at that point. If by then they aren't willing to do that, then we will know that Nutting really is just a cheap bastard. <br /><br />Your analogy makes no sense because my rooting for the Pirates has no effect on whether they produce a winning team, so no, the Rock analogy was better.give me the brandyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13394822811215045045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-5928494504957529562010-08-18T14:18:13.645-04:002010-08-18T14:18:13.645-04:00"Brian writes from his list who the Pirates c..."Brian writes from his list who the Pirates can "realistically get", and to that I say "exactly". <br /><br /><br />If you can't realistically afford players to upgrade to fill holes in with, why do you REALLY own a team?"<br /><br /><br />By saying "realistically" I didn't just imply affordability. The Pirates, and many teams in MLB, aren't going to be able to give Cliff Lee the $20M a year he will most likely get this offseason. If the Cardinals inexplicably decline Pujols option this year and make him a free agent, about six or so teams will be able to afford him at the 25-30 million a year he would command. And quite honestly, with the size of the Pittsburgh market, the historical attendance figures (including winning and losing seasons) and the TV deals the Bucs will probably never be able to afford players at that price no matter who owns the team.<br />Being realistic about FA signings also referred to useful starters, in their mid 30s, signing here who have been on or currently play for winning teams. Guys like Carl Pavano, Ted Lilly, Brad Penny, Javy Vasquez etc; aren't likely to sign on here to spend the twilight or back-end of their career in the midst of a rebuilding job. Maybe they sign if we massively overpay, but that would be wasteful and wouldn't put us that much closer to winning the Central or Wild Card.<br /><br />Maybe the Bucs can take a risk on guys coming off injury plagued seasons like Rich Harden, Chris Young or Erik Bedard with short-term, incentive laden deals. Most of the other guys on the list would be more expensive versions of the back-of-the-rotation types that we have now.<br /><br />When the Pirates are good and in contention for a playoff berth, that is when it is time to fill out the roster with FA acquistions. 2011 is not that time.<br /><br />Again, the key for the Bucs is to develop the talent from within and make sound decisions on whom to keep and make long-term commitments to. Hopefully enough pitching currently in A+ and AA (Morris, Owens, Wilson, Locke etc) can be solid MLB starters to go with the recent “ace-level” signings and compliment the core we have in place which is mostly everyday players.<br /><br /><br />If they start winning (possibly), the attendance is 30,000+ a night (not so sure), all forms of revenue are being maxed out (maybe) and they aren't properly investing in the organization by making sound baseball decisions (ultimately time will tell, but I believe they are doing it right) then I wouldn't be opposed to a regime change.brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08747962846898691035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-39980188917604671272010-08-18T14:11:54.369-04:002010-08-18T14:11:54.369-04:00...and yet for the kazillionth time, it's amaz......and yet for the kazillionth time, it's amazing how people think the team will be able to field a complete/competitive roster in 2 years simply by building through the draft. There are holes that will simply have to be filled through FA signings (pitching), holes that by the time the current round of draftees is MLB ready, the current “core” of players will be near or at the end of their contracts and possibly going elsewhere. Even the rare, small market/low budget teams that the overly optimistic like to cite as examples of hope, have to go outside the system for a few pieces. Exactly who in the hell do the Pirates think is in the system that will be able to turn this rotation into anything respectable in one to two years? I’m talking realistically and with real good odds, not more of the same Lincoln/Morton failures and experiments, or some guy in A ball who’s mowing them down.<br /><br />I agree with Don, doing what’s expected when you’re in the situation the Pirates are in shouldn’t be something to call the press about. I've never seen a FO so in a hurry to point fingers at itself simply sor not $hitting the bed. You don’t see the Nationals GM applauding and giving the ownership a reach around for spending money on Harper and Strasburg. Their fans would set stadium on fire if they didn’t spend it and would be within their rights to do it, yet I don’t think Pirates fans would have been so upset. They would have swallowed the excuse like always and moved on. Pirates fans who unconditionally support ownership and the FO are like the fat girl who knows she’s gonna get used and dumped on but puts out anyway because she’s that desperate to be loved (i.e a winner). There Fat girls, is that analogy better than the Chris Rock one?Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14645147302738910500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-36108609646619668452010-08-18T14:07:02.996-04:002010-08-18T14:07:02.996-04:00@BURGH08...
It's not always a question of bei...@BURGH08...<br /><br />It's not always a question of being able to afford players. They also have to want to come and play for you.<br /><br />There are only about 10 teams in MLB that regularly do what you are suggesting when their team is not in immediate contention.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07863353857287967389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-50980904166716169202010-08-18T14:03:40.862-04:002010-08-18T14:03:40.862-04:00@78Deville...
They are based on me, in the off se...@78Deville...<br /><br />They are based on me, in the off season, looking at every player in MLB who compiled at least 2.5 WAR (Wins over replacement) and then looking at Cot's contracts and other sources to figure out how they were signed, what year of service time they had, etc.<br /><br />I used 2.5 WAR as a measure simply because that's how much Andy LaRoche was worth last year, and I wanted to give fellow Pirate fans an idea of how difficult it is to find a player in free agency who would be better than what most people found unacceptable.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07863353857287967389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-1732409196868646872010-08-18T13:58:19.866-04:002010-08-18T13:58:19.866-04:00gotta agree with matt bandi on this one. you run a...gotta agree with matt bandi on this one. you run a solid blog here but the pirates just reeks of the same old "nutting is evil" themed posts. they are doing it the right way. so what if neal comes off as arrogant? would you rather have an arrogant NH or an imbecile DL?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-58051275481604692902010-08-18T12:46:44.157-04:002010-08-18T12:46:44.157-04:00@78Deville
You have it right. Even if they ARE d...@78Deville<br /><br />You have it right. Even if they ARE doing the right thing, they aren't going to boost their reputation by self-aggrandizing themselves on talk radio. Stay humble and pray for results.Kozhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03745252975054935259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-54887066318945660292010-08-18T12:46:15.515-04:002010-08-18T12:46:15.515-04:00* Craig said: "The MLB draft is 50 rounds. ...* Craig said: "The MLB draft is 50 rounds. Teams typically only sign about half the players. Players going unsigned, even in the early rounds, is not at all uncommon. Don's notion that signing players is what the Pirates "should" be doing is correct, but it isn't a given for any team, let alone for the Pirates."<br /><br />I should have clarified in the first two rounds in my initial statement. Would you care to tally those percentages? <br /><br />Again, great they signed them, and if you want to throw them a bone to say they are actually functioning like a team when it comes to the draft. <br /><br />* The jury is still out on other facets of this organization in my opinion. <br /><br />Brian writes from his list who the Pirates can "realistically get", and to that I say "exactly". <br /><br />If you can't realistically afford players to upgrade to fill holes in with, why do you REALLY own a team? <br /><br />* Finally, I'm not up on how 'blog responses' are done, but find it funny a guy disagreeing with Don's take simply posts a link to his blog where you can find his 'response'. <br /><br />What's next? Challenging him to a dance off at the mall parking lot?BURGH08https://www.blogger.com/profile/04977580975300029584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-11296795355666128712010-08-18T11:44:31.537-04:002010-08-18T11:44:31.537-04:00@ marklandson What are these studies based on?@ marklandson What are these studies based on?78Devillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06534421786719592992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-35715038163459465032010-08-18T10:40:13.354-04:002010-08-18T10:40:13.354-04:00For those who want to invest in free agents, who o...For those who want to invest in free agents, who on these lists (2011 and 2012 Free Agent classes) can the Pirates realistically get as an upgrade over what they currently have in the organization?<br /><br /><br />http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/09/2011-mlb-free-agents.html<br /><br />http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/03/2012-mlb-free-agents.htmlbrianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08747962846898691035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-40157935014085441812010-08-18T10:25:42.500-04:002010-08-18T10:25:42.500-04:00There were 20 teams that could have taken Allie an...There were 20 teams that could have taken Allie and they all passed because they thought the bonus money would be too much. The Pirates took him in the 2nd round and gave the 10th highest bonus of any player in this year's draft. For that, they deserve credit. <br /><br />This is something that Littlefield never would have done, and that is a big part of the reason why the team is in such bad shape today.give me the brandyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13394822811215045045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-77634512175783627042010-08-18T10:17:00.526-04:002010-08-18T10:17:00.526-04:00@dice...Yes, I do understand what it means that th...@dice...Yes, I do understand what it means that the Pirates suck. It means they shouldn't have a large payroll like many of the teams that also suck.<br /><br />In MLB, a high payroll is purely the function of having a lot of players who have more than 5 or 6 years of experience. <b>That is all.</b> It doesn't mean those players are better than the players you have with less than 5 years experience.<br /><br />In fact, another study I did last year found that 85% of all MLB players who performed at even an average level had either less than 6 years in MLB or were with their original team.<br /><br />So, when you are in a position where the Pirates have been, how can you possibly get much better by bringing in better players from that pool of 15% of decent players available?<br /><br />You either have to trade for them <i>(OOPS!...that's not possible because you have no good prospects in the minors to use as trade chips)</i> or purchase them on the free agent market <i>(OOPS!...that's unrealistic because I just showed that no other team in the Pirates' situation is able to do that)</i>.<br /><br />So, guess what? The only other way you can try to get above average players is: <br /><br />1) trade your aging established players for some young players that have some promise but whose original team has soured on them for some reason,<br /><br />2) take free agent fliers on some players that might have bounce back years,<br /><br />3) draft well and pursue an aggressive strategy of buying out high schoolers from their college commitments with over-slot bonuses,<br /><br />4) aggressively pursue international free agents.<br /><br /><b>Since Bob Nutting took over in 2007 and ousted Littlefield and McClatchy, the Pirates have done ALL of those things.</b> <br /><br />Some of the moves Huntington has made in #1 and #2 have not worked out to turn around the MLB team in a short period of time. That's too bad, but that has NOTHING to do with Bob Nutting.<br /><br />There is nothing that Bob Nutting could have done differently to turn the team around faster than what he has already been doing since practically day 1.<br /><br />And yet, he is still kicked in the nuts by the people who use football terms like "rookie contract" when talking about the Pirates.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07863353857287967389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-73852691812047606842010-08-18T10:08:16.469-04:002010-08-18T10:08:16.469-04:00Maybe I can call the Fan Morning Show and brag abo...Maybe I can call the Fan Morning Show and brag about how I went to work and did <i>exactly what I was expected to do</i>.<br /><br />It just rubs people the wrong way when these guys in the front office get in front of the media and talk about how great they are. Have you ever seen Ray Shero (or Craig Patrick or Tony Esposito or Ed Jonston for that matter) statements like this? And these guys drafted <b><i>FRANCHISE ALTERING PLAYERS</i></b>.<br /><br />Not these guys. You almost wonder if they congratulate each other after a successful trip to the restroom.78Devillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06534421786719592992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-25684569359210291332010-08-18T09:48:56.054-04:002010-08-18T09:48:56.054-04:00BURGH08 said: "Players that get drafted typic...BURGH08 said: "Players that get drafted typically get signed"<br /><br />The MLB draft is 50 rounds. Teams typically only sign about half the players. Players going unsigned, even in the early rounds, is not at all uncommon. Don's notion that signing players is what the Pirates "should" be doing is correct, but it isn't a given for any team, let alone for the Pirates. <br /><br />There were a lot of ney sayers who suggested the Pirates were too cheap to sign both players. That is all Huntington was referring to with his comment. The Pirates reputation for penny pinching is well deserved but I see no need to take NH to task for that comment. Those ney sayers were wrong. He has a right to point that out.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13996466255338669512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-43399320737167850872010-08-18T08:41:29.469-04:002010-08-18T08:41:29.469-04:00Here are some other great 'studies':
* T...Here are some other great 'studies':<br /><br />* The standings. Feel free to pick any season since Nutting was involved. <br /><br />* The report in Forbes Magazine that claims the Pirates made a "fat profit" (April 2009). <br /><br />* The major league payroll compared to teams in their own division, and across most of baseball. <br /><br />Again, do they deserve credit for signing those players? Sure, but I wouldn't call it a 'banner day' either. Players that get drafted typically get signed.BURGH08https://www.blogger.com/profile/04977580975300029584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-37363811719672643322010-08-18T07:59:15.053-04:002010-08-18T07:59:15.053-04:00Also, there is little chance either Cutch or Alvar...Also, there is little chance either Cutch or Alvarez, let alone both, will be extended beyond their rookie contracts.BurressWithButterflywingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12466557816631165674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-13461441036367365422010-08-18T07:57:40.246-04:002010-08-18T07:57:40.246-04:00Nutting isn't doing ALL of the things he is su...Nutting isn't doing ALL of the things he is supposed to. They are just making it look good by signing the players they should be drafting so high in the draft year after year after year after year.<br /><br />They are still doing the minimum at the Major League level, so there is no reason whatsoever they wouldn't have money to sign these picks. When you take that $10 Million/yr spent on the draft and average it in with the MLB payroll, it doesn't quite as admirable.<br /><br />The bottom line is, this is just another investment for the future. But not in the way you Nutters thing. They are going to hold these guys back until the last possible minute, then once they play out their rookie contract ship them off for a couple of 27 year old career minor leaguers.<br /><br />And for people who are going to say that is baseless and Bob Nutting has only been in charge since 2007, do some homework. He became the de facto chief in 2007, he has been chairman of the board since 2003.BurressWithButterflywingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12466557816631165674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-70403129274936892452010-08-18T07:52:38.691-04:002010-08-18T07:52:38.691-04:00@marklandson.....I did a study too last year and I...@marklandson.....I did a study too last year and I found out the Pirates suck...do you understand what that means....dicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17528669809082580804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-81500864426771259792010-08-18T02:28:43.405-04:002010-08-18T02:28:43.405-04:00OK, to use your Chris Rock analogy...Some guy take...OK, to use your Chris Rock analogy...Some guy takes care of his kids and <i>so you kick him in the nuts for doing it?</i><br /><br />Bob Nutting is doing all the things he needs to do. That's the point. Why should he be called evil, cheap, etc.?<br /><br />What the hell else should the Pirates have done in their position these off seasons? What free agent miracle workers could they have signed?<br /><br />If Nutting "justifiably" takes a beating for having a low MLB payroll, that statement must assume there was a better course of action to take using more money to get better players.<br /><br />Was there? Really? <i>Seriously?</i><br /><br />Last year I did a study of position players, and I found that <i><b>not one player</b> was on any roster of a team in any market under 4 million people who was a free agent signing, was being paid as an above average player and who actually was performing at an above average level.</i><br /><br />And I'm not talking about just being signed that previous off-season. I'm talking about just being on the roster no matter when the signing took place.<br /><br /><b>Not one player!</b><br /><br />Do you understand what that means? Do you understand now that when people like yourselves bash ownership for not going out to get an above average player in free agency, they are talking about an absurdly ridiculous course of action?<br /><br />If the odds of successfully pursuing that strategy are so slim, why should people be clamoring for the Pirates to do it?<br /><br />They are spending their money in the right way, and hopefully saving some money for the future when that money can better be spent. That will be when Cutch, Alvarez and Co. mature and are due large salaries in their year 4-6 seasons and hopefully beyond.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07863353857287967389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29893900.post-21372957897974105952010-08-18T01:29:37.326-04:002010-08-18T01:29:37.326-04:00http://pittsburghlumberco.com/?p=4138http://pittsburghlumberco.com/?p=4138Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00702878405255825205noreply@blogger.com